Not embracing post modern marxism/socialism doesn't automatically mean you embrace the so called alt-right. I personally find people like Richard Spencer just as distasteful and harmful as something like Antifa. Not being a proponent of socialism doesn't automatically make one a staunch supporter of a so called right wing ideology. I don't subscribe to a "You're with us or against us mentality" or automatically like to put people in a little box, even if they disagree with me which something most of the people on this thread seem to do. I find it ironic that a group of people, most but not all on this thread, who supposedly stand for tolerance and exchange of ideas (socialists) are in fact rigid and intolerant.
|Gibby wrote: *||Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:51 pm|
my guess here is, btw, that richard is an MDE fan who got into Maus after he didn't apologise for being on MDE and read the Vice article where he trashed the very idea of the alt-right (mentioning Adorno) and now richard has to turncoat against Maus as all MDE fans turned against the musicians who did apologise.
Assuming things about me without any evidence what so ever.
|Viewbob wrote: *||Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:56 pm|
Oh yes how dare someone show actual emotion and passion! What a silly idiot!
Childish name calling
|fl00de wrote: *||Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:19 pm|
welcome on board, to the board, welcome, welcome.
Hallihallohallöle, how are you?
Which are your fears? Your thoughts?
Tell us a little more about hate.
Tell us anything, everything.
Where are you from?
How old are you?
How happy are you?
How deep do you use to dive, in your thoughts?
How tough are you? Onboard? Offboard?
Tell us about blue
Are cats cute enough for you?
Or do you rather prefer dogs?
why not about grey? and ashes?
what about purple?
and deep yellow...
Is love real?
How pitiless do you use to be, about censoring yourself?
Who made you cry for the very last time?
Would you ever, ever, travel through the skies for anyone? For your love?
Do you hate music?
About the future, what do you expect?
Talk talk talk, talk a little more, darling.
All right, Dean, LL, you heard him. Let’s shut this thing down.
Shut this thing down? What do you mean? As in shut the conversation down? Why?
|Gibby wrote: *||Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:32 pm|
|richard wrote: *||Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:30 am|
He is a fraud and you've been seduced by the music. Never mind what it stands for, which if taken at face value isn't much anyway, you're expected to rely on what he says in interviews for any insights which just amounts to chaotic rambling disguised as genius, I'm not buying it. I'll be clear, of course we are complicit in a capitalist society, I don't consider capitalism a bad thing and I embrace individualism. I find his schtick disingenuous and his opaque post modern ideals deranged. It's a shame because I do like the sound of his music on the surface but after spending some time understanding the spirit behind it, I don't think it's good.
Well, thanks for coming back at least. Point by point like a real asshole
I don't call people names
- He is a fraud and I have been seduced by the music
. Guilty. I don't really rate the idea of 'authenticity' and surely being seduced by the music is, like, kinda the point?
- What does it stand for? You have not articulated this point. Can it stand for one thing only? Or are there as many interpretations as there are people?
I actually have articulated this point which is, it's not clear what it stands for. I know what he says in interviews about himself and the music but it's a jumbled mess of indecipherable post modern critical theory. My point is have you ever been to a post modern museum? Have you ever noticed the sheer poverty in it's expression and execution? Have you ever compared a Beethoven symphony to John Cage? An italian renaissance master to Jackson Pollack or Basquiat? Does the decline in quality ever strike you?
- I don't rely on what he says in interviews. Loads of musicians I hate give good copy. Loads of musicians I love are taciturn and poor interview subjects. You're obviously well-versed in his thing but you're not really unpacking anything here. Like, 'disguised as genius', where are you pulling that from? He certainly never claims any kind of advanced knowledge. It's just the way he talks, discursively and jumping from point to point, making unlikely connections and occasionally losing the thread. Record yourself talking uninterrupted for a few minutes on a topic and you'll be surprised how often you're nowhere near where you started. If you think that there's some monolithic "genius" there then that says more about you.
This has nothing to do with me, only my opinions which you're welcome to disagree with. It's not personal and trying to make it so isn't a good approach.
- I don't think anyone is offended or bothered by your brave embrace of capitalism and individualism. Again, this speaks more about your insecurity about those things than anything intrinsically good or bad about espousing a particular ideology. Also, as a statist socialist, I love loads of anarchist/anti-authoritarian music and musicians, heck, even some right-wingers. Does all of your iTunes folder match your ideology, Richard?
- You find his shtick disingenuous. Well. You know what I find disingenuous? Coming to the small corner of the internet where John Maus fans have congregated for over a decade and signing up purely to moan about how you don't like John Maus because you don't like socialism now, and then refusing to engage with anyone who earnestly interacts with your points. Like, where is the sincerity or openness in that?
I'm not refusing anything or anyone and am being sincere, what am I saying that strikes you as insincere?
- You like his music on the surface but you've engaged with the spirit of it and you don't like it. Well, thanks for making a couple of posts about shooting yourself in the foot and doing yourself out of some enjoyment.
This thread is an object lesson in why no musician should ever i. say things or ii. get popular.
I don't find being a pitiless censor of one self a good strategy for anyone. I would rather hear someone's bad ideas, know they exist and if they're wrong it'll eventually become apparent. I think the idea of censorship of ideas, speech, and expression is a bad one, which unfortunately is embraced by those who consider themselves left wing socialists. Do I think hate speech is ok? Personally no, but I think people should be allowed to say whatever they want they already do, they should just be prepared for the consequences of their words.